quote: Originally posted by mitchforgie Just had my first Racer 5, and then a second... which is the 4th highest rated IPA on this site, and gets 100 on RB, is well....

Love it. Respect it. A fine IPA. One of my favorite to grab on draft at home.

quote: Perhaps the same Californian would not like something so slap in the face hoppy that Ninkasi or Central City or other North West Coast brewer might make, because it would be too malty (too balance the huge hop load) and heavy on a hot Californian day.

Ummmm.... then good on them Californians. Malt and IPA? Meh. Load up the hops, baby!!!!

quote: In summation, it would be interesting to filter reviews of a beer like this one, with lots of ratings, put them on a map and see if certain "well-reviewed" and "exemplary" beers rate better or worse in certain climates/geographical areas?

I agree. While I love the Racer 5 and California IPAs, I do think there is a strong homerism for many brewers. Things like Cigar City, Hill Homestead, and those Dane brews.... That's what got me out of trading and chasing all that stuff. A neat feature it would be indeed, though!

This is the honest truth...I've never...ever met a craft beer drinker from California, that has said "whoa...that IPA is too hoppy". I have met plenty that have said (and rightfully so) "whoa..that IPA is too malty". Are there more hoppy IPA's? Probably. Maybe TONS more. There are lots of reasons beers get high marks. Beer raters are naturally homers. I think that because of the population, and the amount of raters in CA just the sheer ratings volume probably help pump the numbers up. Does this make the beer less of a great beer? Maybe it is an above average beer that is masquerading as a great beer because CA have pushed it up into that rarefied air. Make your way to Healdsburg, try it fresh on tap surrounded by stunning Sonoma Co. and beautiful people and then see if your opinion changes. I bet if I had DFH on tap w/ Sam at his house, I might not be such a hater.

quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 Are there more hoppy IPA's? Probably. Maybe TONS more. There are lots of reasons beers get high marks. Beer raters are naturally homers. I think that because of the population, and the amount of raters in CA just the sheer ratings volume probably help pump the numbers up.

This is exactly what I am saying, that because there is so many people in California, with various circumstances as to why they might review better, I wonder about some of the worlds great beers and how they rate geographically. Does Westy rate better in some geographic areas than in others? Or Speedway Stout, or any of the top 5s. Maybe if I am bored I will start pulling data from the top 5 beers on this site and then put on a map. Maybe not now, but later.

quote: Originally posted by mitchforgie quote: quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 Are there more hoppy IPA's? Probably. Maybe TONS more. There are lots of reasons beers get high marks. Beer raters are naturally homers. I think that because of the population, and the amount of raters in CA just the sheer ratings volume probably help pump the numbers up. This is exactly what I am saying, that because there is so many people in California, with various circumstances as to why they might review better, I wonder about some of the worlds great beers and how they rate geographically. Does Westy rate better in some geographic areas than in others? Or Speedway Stout, or any of the top 5s. Maybe if I am bored I will start pulling data from the top 5 beers on this site and then put on a map. Maybe not now, but later.

You won't find me loving homerly on DFH. Now, I've never had it on Sam's porch, but even if I did.... I'd have to thank him but rate them the same. I love Cali IPAs no matter where I drink them and I travel quite a bit. Have had them in my house a handful of times on draft. Lovelier than anything DFH every time, for example.

quote: quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 This is the honest truth...I've never...ever met a craft beer drinker from California, that has said "whoa...that IPA is too hoppy".

Now you've met one that you've never met. I often criticize West-coast IPAs for being entirely too hoppy. That is not an IPA; that is a palette wrecker. The whole paradigm seems to have shifted: many pale ales should be IPAs, and many IPAs should be IIPAs. Nevertheless, I know exactly what you mean. I frequently meet people who say something akin to, "Jayson, you have to try this because you're like, wow man, totally into beer." (They are from California after all). I drink it and say say something akin to, "That was nice. I'd like to try another beer, but it doesn't matter because I wouldn't be able to taste it anyway."

quote: Originally posted by jlozier quote: quote: quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 This is the honest truth...I've never...ever met a craft beer drinker from California, that has said "whoa...that IPA is too hoppy". Now you've met one that you've never met. I often criticize West-coast IPAs for being entirely too hoppy. That is not an IPA; that is a palette wrecker. The whole paradigm seems to have shifted: many pale ales should be IPAs, and many IPAs should be IIPAs. Nevertheless, I know exactly what you mean. I frequently meet people who say something akin to, "Jayson, you have to try this because you're like, wow man, totally into beer." (They are from California after all). I drink it and say say something akin to, "That was nice. I'd like to try another beer, but it doesn't matter because I wouldn't be able to taste it anyway."

I really think that many brewers brew their beer as home-brewers brew beer, which is to say....they brew what they like and look for in a beer. The handful of brewers I've been fortunate enough to have had beers with were hop-fiends. They wanted hops to be the Mick Jagger/Keith Richards/Charlie Watts/Ron Woods and that other guy rolled in one for the beer. Malt, deserved nothing more than to be the guy who played the key-tar in the band at an embarrassing point in their existence. OK, so that's a little much..but ya get what I mean. EF, I respect the fact that you'd tell him his brew was shit to his face and/or tell him it's mediocre...especially at his casa. I've always felt that if you choose to rate a beer, whatever you type you should be willing to back it up and say it to the brewer as if you were rating it with him looking over your shoulder. Mitch, I think when you start getting into world class beers that are put on such a high pedestal like Westy, I think you wind up throwing out local homerism, because that beer has such a aura about it...a legend if you will, that it's almost given a perfect 5 by someone before they open it (which I think is crap obviously...not the beer, but the peer pressure of giving a high mark). I also think that trading has given somewhat of a skewed rating of a beer. Example, you rate Canadian IIPA a 4.6 and say to me "holy shit, you love IIPA...I have to send it to you...it might be the greatest IIPA ever" so along comes a bottle and the beer is rated. I don't think it's anywhere near a 4.6 but in order to keep the peace and the good vibes because you thought I would like it, and to not go against the grain..I too give it a 4+ rating. I saw a LOT of that during my trading days over on RB.

quote: quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 quote: quote: quote: Originally posted by jlozier quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 This is the honest truth...I've never...ever met a craft beer drinker from California, that has said "whoa...that IPA is too hoppy". Now you've met one that you've never met. I often criticize West-coast IPAs for being entirely too hoppy. That is not an IPA; that is a palette wrecker. The whole paradigm seems to have shifted: many pale ales should be IPAs, and many IPAs should be IIPAs. Nevertheless, I know exactly what you mean. I frequently meet people who say something akin to, "Jayson, you have to try this because you're like, wow man, totally into beer." (They are from California after all). I drink it and say say something akin to, "That was nice. I'd like to try another beer, but it doesn't matter because I wouldn't be able to taste it anyway." I really think that many brewers brew their beer as home-brewers brew beer, which is to say....they brew what they like and look for in a beer. The handful of brewers I've been fortunate enough to have had beers with were hop-fiends. They wanted hops to be the Mick Jagger/Keith Richards/Charlie Watts/Ron Woods and that other guy rolled in one for the beer. Malt, deserved nothing more than to be the guy who played the key-tar in the band at an embarrassing point in their existence. OK, so that's a little much..but ya get what I mean. EF, I respect the fact that you'd tell him his brew was shit to his face and/or tell him it's mediocre...especially at his casa. I've always felt that if you choose to rate a beer, whatever you type you should be willing to back it up and say it to the brewer as if you were rating it with him looking over your shoulder. Mitch, I think when you start getting into world class beers that are put on such a high pedestal like Westy, I think you wind up throwing out local homerism, because that beer has such a aura about it...a legend if you will, that it's almost given a perfect 5 by someone before they open it (which I think is crap obviously...not the beer, but the peer pressure of giving a high mark). I also think that trading has given somewhat of a skewed rating of a beer. Example, you rate Canadian IIPA a 4.6 and say to me "holy shit, you love IIPA...I have to send it to you...it might be the greatest IIPA ever" so along comes a bottle and the beer is rated. I don't think it's anywhere near a 4.6 but in order to keep the peace and the good vibes because you thought I would like it, and to not go against the grain..I too give it a 4+ rating. I saw a LOT of that during my trading days over on RB.

So many good points in there, Stout. You should rename your bp id to IPAlover, lol. And one clarity regarding what I think of DFH and what I would say to Sam's face.... DFH is ok stuff. But that's it. My thing with them is the marketing and gimmicky stuff and how much of it sells and gets oohs and ahhs, when the beers themselves are mediocre and often sticky alcohpops. It's what I believe at the most fundamental level of quality brewing to be overhype. I don't believe their beer to be crap. Oh, and I actually dig Two-Hearted, which is a fairly malty IPA. So, I'm not against any presence of hop in an IPA, they often just underwhelm or aren't hoppy enough or the malts detract from the overall flavor for me. It is what it is. I like the drinkability of hop water, if that's what you want to call some of my favorite IPAs (Flower Power seems to have a malt presence and I love it in my keg right now.) Even dIPAs are meh to me. Gotta want something stickier or hotter often to go there. That's not me in most moods.

quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 I also think that trading has given somewhat of a skewed rating of a beer. Example, you rate Canadian IIPA a 4.6 and say to me "holy shit, you love IIPA...I have to send it to you...it might be the greatest IIPA ever" so along comes a bottle and the beer is rated. I don't think it's anywhere near a 4.6 but in order to keep the peace and the good vibes because you thought I would like it, and to not go against the grain..I too give it a 4+ rating. I saw a LOT of that during my trading days over on RB.

This describes my experience with RB........over the last 2-3 years a lot of Ontario brewers are 'upping' their game and coming out with a lot of new varieties, and I keep reading on various Canadian/Ontario message boards about how great this and that beer is and I'll try it and give it a lower rating than the others......then lo and behold I'll get an email telling me I'm an imbecile because I gave God's favourite beer a sub-par rating and ruined it's score. Sorry dude, it was just another (insert style here) with a gimmicky twist that did nothing for me. Apparently I'm singlehandedly destroying Ontario's beer reputation on RateBeer.

After a while, beers tend to run together. I've had the Bear Racer 5 several times over the last decade or so, and while I've always thought of it as a very good beer, there are so many more that I've had that are just as good, if not better. I don't think it has anything to do with Raver 5 getting worse, I think what was considered outstanding a decade ago, is now considered humdrum.

IPA IPA I'll Pass Always. Racer 5 is a very good ipa if there is such a thing including Mountain High the version we pas off here in Weed Ca. MH is less hoppped version in order to not compete with the all the same over hopped taste the same ipa one can buy any place. To me what sets Racer 5 above the average is the fact it is "lagered" for 6 weeks (we are told) before selling and the simple fact it is a marketing sucess and that is worth a tip of the hat. As I was taught Over There and relearning in Kaliforna its all about keeping the lights on. One thing old Mt. Shasta Brewing has is the WATER from Mt. Shasta...the system here is a such we only mash at 150 degress so there is no buggering around with proper techniques. Still, no addatives in the brew and again the WATER makes for some interesting beverages. Having sais this, Bear Republic eats our lunch when it comes to sales....hopefully one day we eat the Bear but for now the Bear eaats us.