quote: quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 This is the honest truth...I've never...ever met a craft beer drinker from California, that has said "whoa...that IPA is too hoppy".

Now you've met one that you've never met. I often criticize West-coast IPAs for being entirely too hoppy. That is not an IPA; that is a palette wrecker. The whole paradigm seems to have shifted: many pale ales should be IPAs, and many IPAs should be IIPAs. Nevertheless, I know exactly what you mean. I frequently meet people who say something akin to, "Jayson, you have to try this because you're like, wow man, totally into beer." (They are from California after all). I drink it and say say something akin to, "That was nice. I'd like to try another beer, but it doesn't matter because I wouldn't be able to taste it anyway."

quote: Originally posted by jlozier quote: quote: quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 This is the honest truth...I've never...ever met a craft beer drinker from California, that has said "whoa...that IPA is too hoppy". Now you've met one that you've never met. I often criticize West-coast IPAs for being entirely too hoppy. That is not an IPA; that is a palette wrecker. The whole paradigm seems to have shifted: many pale ales should be IPAs, and many IPAs should be IIPAs. Nevertheless, I know exactly what you mean. I frequently meet people who say something akin to, "Jayson, you have to try this because you're like, wow man, totally into beer." (They are from California after all). I drink it and say say something akin to, "That was nice. I'd like to try another beer, but it doesn't matter because I wouldn't be able to taste it anyway."

I really think that many brewers brew their beer as home-brewers brew beer, which is to say....they brew what they like and look for in a beer. The handful of brewers I've been fortunate enough to have had beers with were hop-fiends. They wanted hops to be the Mick Jagger/Keith Richards/Charlie Watts/Ron Woods and that other guy rolled in one for the beer. Malt, deserved nothing more than to be the guy who played the key-tar in the band at an embarrassing point in their existence. OK, so that's a little much..but ya get what I mean. EF, I respect the fact that you'd tell him his brew was shit to his face and/or tell him it's mediocre...especially at his casa. I've always felt that if you choose to rate a beer, whatever you type you should be willing to back it up and say it to the brewer as if you were rating it with him looking over your shoulder. Mitch, I think when you start getting into world class beers that are put on such a high pedestal like Westy, I think you wind up throwing out local homerism, because that beer has such a aura about it...a legend if you will, that it's almost given a perfect 5 by someone before they open it (which I think is crap obviously...not the beer, but the peer pressure of giving a high mark). I also think that trading has given somewhat of a skewed rating of a beer. Example, you rate Canadian IIPA a 4.6 and say to me "holy shit, you love IIPA...I have to send it to you...it might be the greatest IIPA ever" so along comes a bottle and the beer is rated. I don't think it's anywhere near a 4.6 but in order to keep the peace and the good vibes because you thought I would like it, and to not go against the grain..I too give it a 4+ rating. I saw a LOT of that during my trading days over on RB.

quote: quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 quote: quote: quote: Originally posted by jlozier quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 This is the honest truth...I've never...ever met a craft beer drinker from California, that has said "whoa...that IPA is too hoppy". Now you've met one that you've never met. I often criticize West-coast IPAs for being entirely too hoppy. That is not an IPA; that is a palette wrecker. The whole paradigm seems to have shifted: many pale ales should be IPAs, and many IPAs should be IIPAs. Nevertheless, I know exactly what you mean. I frequently meet people who say something akin to, "Jayson, you have to try this because you're like, wow man, totally into beer." (They are from California after all). I drink it and say say something akin to, "That was nice. I'd like to try another beer, but it doesn't matter because I wouldn't be able to taste it anyway." I really think that many brewers brew their beer as home-brewers brew beer, which is to say....they brew what they like and look for in a beer. The handful of brewers I've been fortunate enough to have had beers with were hop-fiends. They wanted hops to be the Mick Jagger/Keith Richards/Charlie Watts/Ron Woods and that other guy rolled in one for the beer. Malt, deserved nothing more than to be the guy who played the key-tar in the band at an embarrassing point in their existence. OK, so that's a little much..but ya get what I mean. EF, I respect the fact that you'd tell him his brew was shit to his face and/or tell him it's mediocre...especially at his casa. I've always felt that if you choose to rate a beer, whatever you type you should be willing to back it up and say it to the brewer as if you were rating it with him looking over your shoulder. Mitch, I think when you start getting into world class beers that are put on such a high pedestal like Westy, I think you wind up throwing out local homerism, because that beer has such a aura about it...a legend if you will, that it's almost given a perfect 5 by someone before they open it (which I think is crap obviously...not the beer, but the peer pressure of giving a high mark). I also think that trading has given somewhat of a skewed rating of a beer. Example, you rate Canadian IIPA a 4.6 and say to me "holy shit, you love IIPA...I have to send it to you...it might be the greatest IIPA ever" so along comes a bottle and the beer is rated. I don't think it's anywhere near a 4.6 but in order to keep the peace and the good vibes because you thought I would like it, and to not go against the grain..I too give it a 4+ rating. I saw a LOT of that during my trading days over on RB.

So many good points in there, Stout. You should rename your bp id to IPAlover, lol. And one clarity regarding what I think of DFH and what I would say to Sam's face.... DFH is ok stuff. But that's it. My thing with them is the marketing and gimmicky stuff and how much of it sells and gets oohs and ahhs, when the beers themselves are mediocre and often sticky alcohpops. It's what I believe at the most fundamental level of quality brewing to be overhype. I don't believe their beer to be crap. Oh, and I actually dig Two-Hearted, which is a fairly malty IPA. So, I'm not against any presence of hop in an IPA, they often just underwhelm or aren't hoppy enough or the malts detract from the overall flavor for me. It is what it is. I like the drinkability of hop water, if that's what you want to call some of my favorite IPAs (Flower Power seems to have a malt presence and I love it in my keg right now.) Even dIPAs are meh to me. Gotta want something stickier or hotter often to go there. That's not me in most moods.

quote: Originally posted by Stoutlover72 I also think that trading has given somewhat of a skewed rating of a beer. Example, you rate Canadian IIPA a 4.6 and say to me "holy shit, you love IIPA...I have to send it to you...it might be the greatest IIPA ever" so along comes a bottle and the beer is rated. I don't think it's anywhere near a 4.6 but in order to keep the peace and the good vibes because you thought I would like it, and to not go against the grain..I too give it a 4+ rating. I saw a LOT of that during my trading days over on RB.

This describes my experience with RB........over the last 2-3 years a lot of Ontario brewers are 'upping' their game and coming out with a lot of new varieties, and I keep reading on various Canadian/Ontario message boards about how great this and that beer is and I'll try it and give it a lower rating than the others......then lo and behold I'll get an email telling me I'm an imbecile because I gave God's favourite beer a sub-par rating and ruined it's score. Sorry dude, it was just another (insert style here) with a gimmicky twist that did nothing for me. Apparently I'm singlehandedly destroying Ontario's beer reputation on RateBeer.

After a while, beers tend to run together. I've had the Bear Racer 5 several times over the last decade or so, and while I've always thought of it as a very good beer, there are so many more that I've had that are just as good, if not better. I don't think it has anything to do with Raver 5 getting worse, I think what was considered outstanding a decade ago, is now considered humdrum.

IPA IPA I'll Pass Always. Racer 5 is a very good ipa if there is such a thing including Mountain High the version we pas off here in Weed Ca. MH is less hoppped version in order to not compete with the all the same over hopped taste the same ipa one can buy any place. To me what sets Racer 5 above the average is the fact it is "lagered" for 6 weeks (we are told) before selling and the simple fact it is a marketing sucess and that is worth a tip of the hat. As I was taught Over There and relearning in Kaliforna its all about keeping the lights on. One thing old Mt. Shasta Brewing has is the WATER from Mt. Shasta...the system here is a such we only mash at 150 degress so there is no buggering around with proper techniques. Still, no addatives in the brew and again the WATER makes for some interesting beverages. Having sais this, Bear Republic eats our lunch when it comes to sales....hopefully one day we eat the Bear but for now the Bear eaats us.

Been there yet?

Sadly I have not, need to rectify that status!

Luck o' the draw, I haven't been to or through the Rubber City at all this year. Go figure.

quote: Originally posted by fretwalker Luck o' the draw, I haven't been to or through the Rubber City at all this year. Go figure.

I'm 15 minutes south of Akron, don't be a stranger if you ever get back this way.