I agree. I try to buy local, and try to buy craft. And a majority of the time I do. I just don't have any exaggerated/grand loyalties there. If Bourbon County, for example, is $6 less (and better) than a bomber of Knee Deep bourbon barreled stout? I ain't THAT loyal. 8-9 times out of ten, the craft-not-crafty stuff is better, but not always. I have the same mentality when it comes to cars. You want me to buy American, start making cars as dependable as a Toyoyta or a Honda...then we'll talk.

quote: Originally posted by PaulCardom This has been a discussion on the Ontario Craft beer boards as well for the last month or so called Faux Craft http://www.bartowel.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=8439 It seems there are people who look for good beer regardless of who makes it, people who drink good beer strictly because of who makes it or because they'll only drink local. Personally, if the beer is good, I'll drink it. 77% of Sam Adams Boston Lager is brewed at Miller facilities, I keep buying it because I enjoy it. Canadian beer writer Stephen Beaumont said on the same forum (and RateBeer) a while ago that most people will deny it now, but if a macro made a great tasting stout, people would buy it. He used Goose Island (AB-InBev) and Koningshoeven (Bavaria) as examples of good tasting beers owned by macros.

It is certainly admirable to buy local and support small independent craft breweries. I try to do this whenever possible. One of the issues I have though is the guilt trip that is sometimes associated with this. About 10 years ago I made a simple comment in the forums of another beer site that said "I don't like XXXX brewery" It turned in to the brewer emailing me and doing all this other stuff accusing me of hurting the craft beer industry blah blah. To which I replied "You are over stating this I just said I don't like your beer. Every bottle tastes infected. I support your local craft beer competition just not you" If there are 2 restaurants in a town, one is locally owned and serves me cold food with a cockroach on the wall and the other is a Wendy’s. I'm eating at Wendy’s. I will not be pressured into the "buy local" guilt trip and I will eat at the chain restaurant if I consider it a better option. I will also not take a list of breweries into a store and see if it is craft or crafty or macro etc. I will buy what I like. If it’s a small craft brewery fine, if Coors owns 25% fine. Bottom line is (to slightly alter Andrew Zimmern)...."If it tastes good, DRINK it!"

quote: Originally posted by PaulCardom 77% of Sam Adams Boston Lager is brewed at Miller facilities

Interesting, that I've been unable to find a breakdown of where Sam Adams is actually brewed. Several sources say appx. 35% of total production is in the former Hudepohl-Schoenling brewery in Cincinnati, purchased by Boston Beer in 1997. Other than that, I can't find much info at all about where all this "Boston Beer" is brewed!

Letter from the August Schell Brewing Company addressing this:

quote: We here at the August Schell Brewing Company would like to take this time to respond to the recent media offensive that the Brewers Association has launched against ‘faux-craft’ or ‘crafty’ brewers. We whole-heartedly believe in breweries being transparent, and the consumers right to know who is producing their beer, and where it is being made. Where we take issue, is their definition of what constitutes a craft brewer, and the fact that we have been in a sense, “black listed.” In 2005, the Association of Brewers, and the Brewers’ Association of America merged to form the Brewers Association to “promote and protect small and independent American brewers, their craft beers and the community of brewing enthusiasts.” With the merger, they decided to create a set of guidelines of who is and isn’t a craft brewer in an attempt to essentially kick out the big guys. Their definition stated that a craft brewer is “small, independent, and traditional.” Three things that the big guys supposedly weren’t. The problem with those guidelines is that it ended up excluding some of their largest members, so they changed their definition and made exceptions repeatedly to make sure they were included in their group. We apparently were not important enough, and were thus no longer considered a “craft brewery,” because according to their definition, we’re not “traditional.” As a 152-year-old brewery, and the second oldest family-owned brewery in America, stating that we are not “traditional” is insulting. Their definition of what makes a traditional brewer, and thus a ‘craft brewer,’ comes down to the use of adjuncts. Big brewers often use adjuncts in excess amounts to cut down on brewing costs, and to lighten their beers- the opposite of what the craft beer movement is all about. While this is true for them, it is also a very shortsighted view of brewing in America, and most definitely not the case for in our brewery. When August Schell emigrated from Germany and founded this brewery in 1860, his only option to brew was to use was available to him, as it was impossible to ship large quantities of raw ingredients from Europe at that time. The high quality, two-row malting barley he could use back home, wasn’t native to North America. Instead, he had to use the locally grown, but much higher protein, 6-row barley to brew his beer. When he decided that he wanted to produce a high quality, clear and stable, golden lager, he had to cut down that protein content somehow. In order to accomplish this, he used a small portion of another locally grown ingredient he called “mais” as is hand written in our old brewing logs, better known as corn. He didn’t use corn to cheapen or lighten his beer. He did it because it was the only way to brew a high quality lager beer in America at that point. By the time high quality two-row malting barley was finally cultivated and available to use, our consumers had already been drinking our high quality beers for many years. We continued to brew our beer using this small portion of corn because that was the way we traditionally brewed it. The question we have for the Brewers Association is why are we being punished for brewing with a locally grown ingredient, which started out of necessity, and has continued out of tradition? And why is it only bad to use adjuncts if you are brewing an American Lager, yet perfectly acceptable to use them in basically any Belgian style of beer, IPA’s or double IPA’s? The use of adjuncts in those styles is to lighten the beer, period. Labeling us as strictly an “adjunct brewer” as you so kindly have in your list of ‘Domestic, Non-Craft Brewers,’ is false. What you fail to give us credit for is that we also make a dozen traditional German-style beers that are all-malt and have never contained adjuncts. Yes, we brew our American Lager beers with a small portion of corn. This is the traditional way we’ve always brewed them, and the way we will continue to brew them. Have you looked at the price of corn lately? For us, it’s more expensive than malt. If we were so concerned about producing the cheapest beer possible, our American Lagers would be all malt! We brew them this way because that is the way we always have done it, not because it is cheaper. We put the same amount of pride and effort into producing our American Lagers as we do our line up of all-malt “specialty” beers, since we can’t dare call them “craft.” I know for a fact the same holds true for our friends at the Yuengling and Straub breweries. For you to say that the three oldest, family-owned breweries in America are “not traditional” is downright disrespectful, rude and quite frankly, embarrassing. If you want to keep us on your list of shame, then so be it. That is your decision. We will continue to pour our heart and soul into every drop of beer that we make in this small, independent, and traditional brewery. Just like every other craft brewery out there does, and just like we have done for over a century and a half. Shame on you. Jace Marti 6th Generation August Schell Brewing Company

quote: Originally posted by Clash It is certainly admirable to buy local and support small independent craft breweries. I try to do this whenever possible. One of the issues I have though is the guilt trip that is sometimes associated with this. If there are 2 restaurants in a town, one is locally owned and serves me cold food with a cockroach on the wall and the other is a Wendy’s. I'm eating at Wendy’s. I will not be pressured into the "buy local" guilt trip and I will eat at the chain restaurant if I consider it a better option. I will also not take a list of breweries into a store and see if it is craft or crafty or macro etc. I will buy what I like. If it’s a small craft brewery fine, if Coors owns 25% fine. Bottom line is (to slightly alter Andrew Zimmern)...."If it tastes good, DRINK it!"

+1, this pretty much sums up where I am at. Local is great, but I am not paying through the nose or drinking terrible beer for the sake of going local.

quote: Originally posted by Airforce1 Letter from the August Schell Brewing Company addressing this: quote: quote: We here at the August Schell Brewing Company would like to take this time to respond to the recent media offensive that the Brewers Association has launched against ‘faux-craft’ or ‘crafty’ brewers..... Jace Marti 6th Generation August Schell Brewing Company

Yes, I saw that and wondered why Schell would be considered non-traditional! Schell is about as traditional as a US brewery gets. This shows the arbitrary and strange criteria held up by the BA. I get what they are trying to do, but it should not be at the cost of making some smaller brewers appear to be out of the loop.

quote: Originally posted by heemer77 quote: quote: Originally posted by Clash It is certainly admirable to buy local and support small independent craft breweries. I try to do this whenever possible. One of the issues I have though is the guilt trip that is sometimes associated with this. If there are 2 restaurants in a town, one is locally owned and serves me cold food with a cockroach on the wall and the other is a Wendy’s. I'm eating at Wendy’s. I will not be pressured into the "buy local" guilt trip and I will eat at the chain restaurant if I consider it a better option. I will also not take a list of breweries into a store and see if it is craft or crafty or macro etc. I will buy what I like. If it’s a small craft brewery fine, if Coors owns 25% fine. Bottom line is (to slightly alter Andrew Zimmern)...."If it tastes good, DRINK it!" +1, this pretty much sums up where I am at. Local is great, but I am not paying through the nose or drinking terrible beer for the sake of going local.

I'll 2nd (or is it 3rd'd) what Clash and Heemer says. It actually turns me off when crafter brewers get this "smaller is better" mentality because that's not the case 100% of the time, although they'd like that to be assumed by all. Blindly supporting the local guy because of what they've risked is absurd. I'm a fan of Samuel Adams. I'm a fan of Sierra Nevada. These guys are HUGE compared to my local crafter brewer, and I support them in my own way. There's enough room in the beer geeks world for Coors/Miller/A-B to coexist with the DustBowl (my local guy) and smaller guys. If the big guys actually made beer I enjoy, I'd buy it. Hell, sometimes I do get Blue Moon. A guilty pleasure of mine is Miller High Life and Rolling Rock. Shit to some, but to me...again...guilty pleasure. Guilt trips suck, no matter who it comes from.

If Schell is considered an "adjunct brewer" based on the use of corn in one style of beer, what of New Glarus? Spotted Cow does contain corn!

quote: Originally posted by fretwalker If Schell is considered an "adjunct brewer" based on the use of corn in one style of beer, what of New Glarus? Spotted Cow does contain corn!

and then you got Dogfish Head, about as "adjunct" as you are going to get. This isn't Germany folks, adjunct is not a bad word!

I agree about Schell. I have always considered them one step and with some beers two steps above BMC. I don't know how large their market is but it is certainly my choice when staring at the BMC no other alternative aisle. I especially love their prohibition and wild rice ales. In these days of mass experimentation its great to find a brewer who seeks out their historic recipes and promotes them. its also great to find a brewer that you can really taste the malt.