quote: Originally posted by eaglefan538 quote: quote: Originally posted by fargingbastige6 I have been around non-Christian, non-English speaking people who took it upon themselves to learn how to say "Merry Christmas" because they recognized that it was a pretty big deal for me and the folks I was with. They even helped us celebrate it to the best of our ability given our location. It was awesome. Likewise, we recognized their beliefs, traditions and language and made it a point to do the same. There was no agenda - just mutual respect... and I think about the barriers/hurdles that we overcame and wonder why we can't do that on a larger scale here in this country... too many agendas and jockeying for position and control... too many people offended... too many people disenfranchised (WeverTF that means)... Merry Christmas! In fact, this thread is the perfect example of how things should be taken in life. No darned laywers and no law making to ban things. Mutual respect for one another. If you don't want me to tell you Merry Christmas, please let me know, and I will try to honor that in our next interaction. I would like to seek to understand other people, but I won't be perfect. Also, I will try to not over-react to your beliefs and displays of faith or practice.... perhaps share a counter view, but not ban you from yours as a solution. Why can't it be that friggin simple? Oh, that probably goes back to the lawyer thing.... The courts.... Long sigh... Our judicial process of reinventing and reintepreting law off of case history instead of studying the original constitution and intent of meaning there has unfortunately created an unconstitutional situation. And, re: the WI manger seen: realize there is existing case law that tells me they will absolutely lose that battle and have to remove it. It's sad. Merry Christmas, beepals! And if you don't recognize Christmas in a religious or secular fashion, but choose another: Happy Holidays. And if you're an atheist or apathetic who thinks we should recognize nothing in public: kiss my arse!

So I guess I have been a little insensitive? Apologies to an Beerpals I offended. I just assume its a holiday that has a name, so I call it by that name.

quote: quote: quote: quote: Originally posted by eaglefan538 Why can't it be that friggin simple? Oh, that probably goes back to the lawyer thing.... The courts.... Long sigh... Our judicial process of reinventing and reintepreting law off of case history instead of studying the original constitution and intent of meaning there has unfortunately created an unconstitutional situation.

When the Constitution is clear on something it is easy. However, the Constitution is vague or silent on many issues. For example, modern technology in relation to privacy issues. When it is not clear in the Constitution, the Framers' intent and Congress hasn't taken action, where else should the courts look? That is where common law takes over and this was handed down from the British common law tradition which goes back hundreds of years. I agree that they overreach at times, but when they do, that is when Congress needs to step up and assert its authority. The amendment process needs to be streamlined to make it easier to change the Constitution. Trust me, I prefer a more strict Constitutional interpretation myself, but it's not always realistic or practical in the real world. And there are defenders of strict Constitutional interpretations, look at Scalia and Thomas. As far as everyone getting offended by everything, that pc culture run amok is frustrating!

Travis my Brother, Merry Christmas! Dec. 25 Christmas is celebrated around the world. No worries. Enjoy the Season. Just let Brittany get around me when I have my mistletoe...[;)][:D]

Does anyone have an issue with what to celebrate on 17 March - or what to call that day? For the record, I'm not offended by anything I've read... quite frankly, not much offends me period. I guess I have a pretty high threshold for pain and thick skin. But, I celebrate Christmas, so that's what I call it.

THANK YOU!!!

quote: Originally posted by fargingbastige6 Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Kiss my ass. Kiss his ass. Kiss your ass. Happy Hanukkah.

Phish - you didn't offend me, nor did I find your post insensitive. Online, people have to be their own filters. You can't target each individual with a post of Merry wishes... You done well! heemer - I fully agree with your point about things where the constitution isn't clear or the original intent can't be determined. But given the founding fathers' position on theism (no, they weren't all Christians), it is absurd that the mention of God now is forbidden. Yes, no one should require a specific religion be followed in any school or government function.... but for crying out loud, they clearly didn't interpret ANYTHING in the constitution to forbid the recognition of God by anyone in the government. One only has to read the numerous references to God in their speeches, declarations of a national day of prayer, a day of thanksgiving, etc.... today the atheists have been given enough priority to forbid freedom of expression and speech. absurdness. revisionist history through a bunch of laywers and over-empowered judges with politcal agendas. take all of our currency, throw that in the trash too, cuz in God we can't trust.... or at least we can't state that on the bill, right? nonsense. bottom line: it's great we all have a fairly tolerant and mild/agreeable position around here on this issue. i mean, darn, oiz too? sheesh, that's world peace right there.... either that or i have to go re-examine my position, LOL :) :) :))))) we do have a country with blessed rights, so i will rejoice this season for that. in the end, i recognize that the word "god" appearing on a dollar bill or my saying "merry christmas" to a non-christian isn't going to make anyone a christian. you can't legislate morality or belief.... so i don't over-react the other way. i'm more peeved at the points i made because it is a constitutional issue, not a religious issue. the christian right right often forgets that point. but, merry christmas to all at last! yes, merry christmas and enjoy and be safe bp's!

quote: Originally posted by kinger why try and take away what many cherish and worship when you have the freedom and right to practice as you wish. Allow Christians to keep and protect their freedoms and rights just as well.

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER! This is the stance that I have as well. While I am not a Christian for various reasons, I do not begrudge the town for putting up Christmas lights and decorations on the lampposts, the school for giving me 2 weeks off as a Christmas Break, my students for wishing me a Merry Christmas and sometimes giving me a small present, or any of the random "Merry Christmases" that I am given by people in passing. It is just personal expression...it just reminds me of how free I really am. Nevertheless, it is not just the ignorance and lack of tolerance on behalf of the atheists that one has to fight against. There are plenty of Christians who fit into that category. We as a school have been involved in social altercations with some of the conservative groups in town. A teacher had a menorah in her classroom. It didn't become a matter of some institutionalization of religion nonsense at least. The problem was that it was a religious symbol other than a Christian symbol...in other words, if she had a Christmas tree in her classroom, then there would have been no problem. My point is that there are intolerant wackos (does "wacko" pluralize as "wackoes" or "wackos"?) in every group. It isn't fair to single out the atheists, even though, granted, they deserve a lot of the animosity they receive...if you're going to put up a bunch of billboards with spurious quotes from Jefferson on them that condemn religion, then you are going to generate a lot of hatred from everyone. If you're going to prevent other people from exercising their rights while you exercise yours, then there are going to be problems...regardless of what angle you're coming from.

*wackos, I believe. **i'd say a menorah in the classroom is more comprable to having a manger scene in the classroom, not a tree. as a christian, i'm not offended by anyone wishing me happy holidays, channukah, kwanzaa, christmas, whatever...and i pay little attention to those who would be offended with me wishing them a merry christmas. if i know someone is say, jewish, i'll wish them a happy channukah. if i don't know, i'll say merry christmas (not the lame and pc happy holidays)...

quote: Originally posted by jlozier quote: quote: Originally posted by kinger why try and take away what many cherish and worship when you have the freedom and right to practice as you wish. Allow Christians to keep and protect their freedoms and rights just as well. WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER! A teacher had a menorah in her classroom. It didn't become a matter of some institutionalization of religion nonsense at least. The problem was that it was a religious symbol other than a Christian symbol...in other words, if she had a Christmas tree in her classroom, then there would have been no problem. (does "wacko" pluralize as "wackoes" or "wackos"?) .

quote: Originally posted by jlozier If you're going to prevent other people from exercising their rights while you exercise yours, then there are going to be problems...regardless of what angle you're coming from.

Indeed. It's a two way street! I remember when a Jewish parent would come in to my 2nd or 3rd grade class and share what Hannukah was all about. It didn't convert me, it wasn't salesy.... it was informative and I enjoyed learning about how other people practice the "holidays." I wonder if that is even legal anymore.

quote: quote: Originally posted by slowrunner77 *wackos, I believe. **i'd say a menorah in the classroom is more comprable to having a manger scene in the classroom, not a tree.

I thought they were Christmas trees, and not Holiday trees? It is a moot point because the family would have been even happier if there was a manger present. The problem was in the non-Christian religious representation.